IT Wolves withdrawal

Wetstuff
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Re: IT Wolves withdrawal

Post by Wetstuff » Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:45 pm

I am a cat and I am curious, so I watched the attached replay onboard Albervita

Albervita gets 11 from the Nadeo umpire while rounding the 2nd mark, at replay it shows there is quite some distance with the leeward boat, so could be a lag pen, boats are not even that close, in my opinion could have been cancelled

...after that Albervita breaks rrs44 by not taking the pen as soon as possible, but only after +20 seconds starts to bear down to the leeward towards the same leeward boat where it breaks rrs11 and then does the 360 originally assigned by Nadeo.

so initially Albervita gets a wrong 11, then breaks 44, 11, 14 and possibly 16.1 while taking the turn very close to other boat.

This all according to my observation and limited knowledge of the rules.

A side note: World Sailing rules of sailing are not used to bend the rules, if applied correctly they can deal with any situation. And this is because your sense of "sportsmanship"could be different to mine, some play hard others soft. One thing is for sure however, we all have to play by the rules, if I let you pass or not defend my position it's more likely I'm being stupid and not a "sportsman".

A friendly note Alberto since I know you for years and I consider you a friendly player: learn from your mistakes and watch how this Protest Committee applies the rules, we all like to be competitive while having fun, but we need to do it with a set of rules which we need to learn from.
MLS is the closest thing there is to real life -fair for all- sailing, it is a learning tool. Yes there will be some unfair situations, but they are nothing compared to an NPC event (which for me is a dead concept)

I urge you to reconsider and don't hesitate to ask those more advanced in rules their opinions.

Yours
Alex
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Albervita
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Re: IT Wolves withdrawal

Post by Albervita » Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:09 am

Dear Alex,
you might disagree but I think there are sensible differences from ISAF (that deals with real sailing) when applied to real sail and ISAF interpreted for VSK (collisions, verbal warning possible to mention the few).
The debate what’s is better among NPC and ISAF in VSK will continue.
In any case both are good for skippers sailing with proper behaviour; for “body check” sailing better to open a match race. At least there you know that the main purpose is not to sail faster but take alll means (pens included) to win. That’s it.
Ciao
PS : I dont see in the following videos any need to defend positions but just the intention to give pens.

http://www.vskrestart.it/it/forum/quatt ... a-mls#4578

Albervita
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Re: IT Wolves withdrawal

Post by Albervita » Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:26 am

PS : I have always expressed to Goffe & friends my appreciations for the hard work they do to let our Community enjoy. The pens were all correct in accordance to ISAF "applied" to VSK (Sorry Alex but I dont think that after 35 years of races in real sailing I need to get explanations) but our concern goes a little ahead that. When rules are used with the clear intention to give a pen there is something wrong in the head of some skipper.
In any case we will not reconsider our decision.

In any case the chat and the video of race 2 are misaligned of about 15 seconds.

Wetstuff
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Re: IT Wolves withdrawal

Post by Wetstuff » Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:50 am

Alberto,
1.I don't see how an NPC event would help you avoid such situations. If you want to hunt someone NPC is the way to go, can you seriously not see this?
2. Suppose you have a problem with 1 or 2 players, do you abandon a regatta for this reason? Personally I try to avoid a couple of players myself knowing they are unpredictable, knowing your opponents is another part of fleet racing.
3. Did Scheidt complain about Ainsley match racing him in a fleet regatta to get him to the back of the fleet and win gold in the Olympics?
4. MLS applies ISAF rules almost like in real life with the exception perhaps to rule 14. I'm sorry but you have not studied enough the protest decisions.
5. You receive a pen, do you or do you not comply with 44 and do your turn asap? If you don't take your pen and interfere with a boat racing, could you perhaps under rule 2?
6. I am racing RC44 and I know there is a big wind shadow from the spinnaker, ofcourse I will not let someone get to my windward from behind, I would luff you as well. And by the way 17.1 does not apply for a boat coming from behind, do you take this in consideration in NPC?

We could go on and on, for me you have admitted defeat in understanding the rules

I am not attacking you, but you know a very old saying: "I'm getting older but I'm always being taught a lot (of things)" a quote by Solon the Athenian

Alex
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defender
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Re: IT Wolves withdrawal

Post by defender » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:18 pm

Wetstuff wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:50 am
I am not attacking you, but you know a very old saying: "I'm getting older but I'm always being taught a lot (of things)" a quote by Solon the Athenian
Alex
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Practically an ignorant old man ... a true friend! :? :roll:

In my country it is said: "Cornuto e mazziato!" Solone the Italian :mrgreen:
Fausto

P.S. We use the rules to live quietly ... the difference is there and it is great ... Good wind and have fun! ;)

Albervita
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Re: IT Wolves withdrawal

Post by Albervita » Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:16 pm

Alex,
you see the point :
Did somebody urge you to take part in my post to the MLS Staff ?
Did somebody urge you to give your advice to me ?
Sorry but you are absolutely out of theme: I wrote pens were right but still you dont refrain from quoting my "understanding" of the rules.
The only reasonable sentence you wrote is that "if you know them you avoid them" and this is exactly what I'll do.
In any case please refer to an old (like me) sentence : "del bel tacer non fu mai scritto" (as MLS Staff did).

Legsy
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Re: IT Wolves withdrawal

Post by Legsy » Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:56 pm

Dear Alberto and all Wolves


We are sorry to hear that the Wolves will be withdrawing from the current season of MLS. We have read and understand your reasons for the withdrawal.

The rules of the event as you know are governed under the World Sailing RRS and are overseen by the MLS PC with full impartiality.  As these rules are in place then it is quite correct that any skipper can use these rules to any advantage during a race. 

As in all competitive events when there are specific rules in place there is no such thing as being fair or gentlemanly, only the rules keep the level playing field.

All teams know this when signing up to MLS and these rules have been followed for the previous eight seasons with the majority of the same teams taking part.

Once again, we are sorry you feel the need to with drawer from MLS and we would like very much for you all to reconsider.  We still have over ten days before the next race night and the teams are drawn for each server so there is plenty of time to reconsider.

Regards

RC for MLS

Albervita
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Re: IT Wolves withdrawal

Post by Albervita » Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:57 pm

Dear RC,
thank you so much for your post.
Since I know well what's behind, first of all I should say thank you for your hard job and the professional way you manage it.
I admit that my approach to the event was probably influenced by the spirit we use (or try to use at our best) in our Vskrestart races, i.e. one eye to the rules but with the aim to relax and enjoy.
In any case we discussed the subject within the Team and the majority of Teammates wants to complete their experience in MLS.
Therefore we will be there at next race.
Thank you for your attention
Albervita

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Goffe
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Re: IT Wolves withdrawal

Post by Goffe » Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:56 pm

GREAT !!!

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