Season 10, Day 1, Green Server, Race 3 - Exp - Bombardino/Damien

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Goffe
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Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:12 pm

Season 10, Day 1, Green Server, Race 3 - Exp - Bombardino/Damien

Post by Goffe »

Submission Type: Explanation, Redress

1. Your registered Boat Name: Bombardino/Last Minute

2. Race Day: 1

3. Group: Green

4. Race : 3

5. Time (in Replay): 11:13

6. Rule(s) applicable: 13

7. Skipper(s) involved: Damien/HDTeam and me Bombardino/Last Minute

8. Description: 1st leg about to round mark 1 (to the right). I tack to port to round the mark. Damien is windward on starboard. I have to avoid him and I luff up head to wind before we get too close. Damien finally tacks to port and I can go back to port. Nadeo gives me a pen 13. Damien did NOT have to avoid me. He tacks to round the mark, There is NO boat contact. Far from. I ask for cancellation which Damien refuses. I ask for redress.

9. Print Screen attached: (required for a valid PROTEST) Bombardino-Damien S10-D1-R3-01.jpg

10. Replay attached: (optional)
Bombardino-Damien S10-D1-R3-01.jpg
Bombardino-Damien S10-D1-R3-01.jpg (707.95 KiB) Viewed 6353 times
Legsy
Posts: 431
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:42 pm

Re: Season 10, Day 1, Green Server, Race 3 - Exp - Bombardino/Damien

Post by Legsy »

Facts:

Bombardino didn't keep clear properly. He forces Damian to tack to avoid collision. It is quite close to tell whether or not he started to tack. Damian is forced to avoid the collision when Bombardino is still on port tack. Therefore Bombardino breaks RRS 10.

Pen cancel refusal:
It is not visible on the replay if Damian refused the cancel (evidence of this in badicam footage), and host kicked Damien as per MLS Rules. Therefore Damian DSQ for breach of MLS Rules

Bilbo case:
He actually breaks RRS 44.2. Even though he took an extra penalty for RRS 44.1 given by nadeo, he still should be DSQ, because according to RRS 44.1 penalty turns only apply to part 2 of RRS and rule 31.


Decision:

Bombardino DSQ for breaking RRS 10.
Damian DSQ for breaking MLS Rules (pen cancel refusal)
Bilbo DSQ for breaking RRS 44.2.

PC for MLS
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euphoria
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Location: Oslo, Norway
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Re: Season 10, Day 1, Green Server, Race 3 - Exp - Bombardino/Damien

Post by euphoria »

Legsy wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:28 pm Bilbo case:
He actually breaks RRS 44.2. Even though he took an extra penalty for RRS 44.1 given by nadeo, he still should be DSQ, because according to RRS 44.1 penalty turns only apply to part 2 of RRS and rule 31.
Hi Legsy,

NOR Team is surprised to see that Bilbo suddenly is included in this protest without any notice. We assume this is done based on the following wording in the sailing instructions:
Since a Pen Cancel Request actually concerns a penalty, albeit the penalty is given by the Nadeo umpire, the PC will look at the whole situation and may disqualify any boat involved which has broken a rule.
Under this instruction, the protest committee can only disqualify a third party that has broken a rule in the same situation. For example if there was another boat that Bombardino had to avoid, which prevented her from keeping clear of Damien. MLS has this rule, just like many other VSK events, to take action in a more efficient way than rule 61.1(c) requires.

See the picture below:
Bilbo.png
Bilbo.png (346.33 KiB) Viewed 6015 times
There were almost 2 boat lengths between Bilbo and the two boats involved in the protest, and Bilbo did of course not affect the actions of Bombardino. It was also a big difference in time between the two situations. Bilbo hit the mark 10 seconds after Bombardino got her penalty, and the mark contact was not related to the first situation. There can be absolutely be no doubt that the two incidents were different situations.

If the protest committee wanted to protest Bilbo, they could have done so.
  • But in that case it had to be done as a separate protest (informing the parties).
  • And it would of course need to happen within reasonable time.
  • And it should be for a situation that qualifies for a PC initiated protest, where someone is getting an advantage trough unwanted behavior on the water. Not on a boat that is accidentally doing two turns instead of one. Otherwise it could be questioned why the committee takes certain situations and not others.
NOR Team assume the protest committee acknowledge it has made a procedural error, and we are kindly asking to have Bilbo reinstated at her finishing position. We know that there is no appeal options, but the protest committee has the right to reopen their hearing under rule 66 if it finds that it may have made a significant error.

In case you didn't already consider this, we would request that no members of team Loyal Sailing takes part in this hearing, as the outcome of the protest decides whether NOR Team or Loyal Sailing gets first or second position of race 3 for the overall score.

7empest on behalf of NOR Team
Legsy
Posts: 431
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:42 pm

Re: Season 10, Day 1, Green Server, Race 3 - Exp - Bombardino/Damien

Post by Legsy »

Bilbo Case

The PC acknowledges that there has been a procedural error in the original case ruling concerning Bilbo. Therefore the PC has no option but to rescind the original ruling of DSQ and re-instate Bilbo into the results and apply the original finishing line position of 13th place.

Therefore the amended case ruling is produced below.

Bombardino didn't keep clear properly. He forces Damian to tack to avoid collision. It is quite close to tell whether or not he started to tack. Damian is forced to avoid the collision when Bombardino is still on port tack. Therefore Bombardino breaks RRS 10.

Pen cancel refusal:
It is not visible on the replay if Damian refused the cancel (evidence of this in badicam footage), and host kicked Damien as per MLS Rules. Therefore Damian DSQ for breach of MLS Rules

Decision:

Bombardino DSQ for breaking RRS 10.
Damian DSQ for breaking MLS Rules (pen cancel refusal)

MLS PC
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