Proposal for group composition for MLS 14

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euphoria
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Proposal for group composition for MLS 14

Post by euphoria »

Proposal from NOR Team:
Instead of having the 3 team members from a team on the same server, we propose to have them distributed on different servers. I.e. each team send 1 skipper to the blue server, 1 to the green server and 1 to the red server.

The benefits of this system are at least these points:
  • Each team will have the same difficulty level of the opponents in the races. With the previous system, some race nights gave harder groups to some teams and easier to others. The reason for this is the different levels of the teams, but also that some teams have no-shows for some regattas, which really makes an effect on the result.
  • Someone always complain about team tactics and want MLS to be based on fleet racing skills only, but still have it as a team competition. With only 1 from each team on each server, team racing tactics are eliminated.
  • With the current system, the number of teams participating are limited to 9, 12, 15 etc. With mixed groups, any reasonable number would work.
  • We are getting an interesting "surprise moment" before every race: Which skipper does the teams send to the different servers?
We hope to test this system for MLS 14.
What does the other teams think?

Harald
Toppen
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Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:02 pm

Re: Proposal for group composition for MLS 14

Post by Toppen »

Hi Harald, hi all MLS skippers,

I personally find your proposal very interesting, and it completely renews MLS (that's not a bad thing).

However, I think there is a main problem with the last point mentioned ..

The teams can wait until the last moment and wait for the choice of the other teams to make their choices at the last minute.
This is not very fair for the players joining the server first.. And even more for the host of the server, which can't change servers as he wishs.

For this, I propose you an adding to your proposal :

Give to the RC names of the skippers who will run the 3 races 1 hour before the start of the first race (8 PM).

I am well aware that this system has problems too...
In particular a complicated organization for the teams before the 3 races, and especially a big organizational problem at the last minute for RC who must choose the hosts of the servers.
And, all MLS skippers must have a blind confidence in the members of RC, for not communicate the names of the skippers chosen and not influence the choice of other teams.

But all this allows not to favor the teams choosing at the last moments which skipper the team run the races.

What do you think ?

Toppen
Albervita
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Re: Proposal for group composition for MLS 14

Post by Albervita »

I fully agree with the suggestion of distributing teammates in different servers. (not to mention that is near to the concept of Velarossa Cup).
However as mentioned in the comments above there are some problems to be solved.
A possible algorythm like Vcup that would fix in advance, week by week, the grid for the next race is not useful because the evening races are very close in time, the teams are composed by more skippers who could alternate and for the races with RC44 and TP52 (or in case AC75) usually skippers are selected upon their skill (or weakness in ACC ;-)) with those boats.
The main, and perhaps the only problem, is therefore that hosts (and possibly the bandicam operators) should be indicated and known in advance because, if racing, cannot race in another server.
For the rest of the grid, the Team Captain , through Discord or TS, should provide that there is one component for each team on each server.
The deriving composition will give thus some "thrilling" moments.
Provided that all server will start races on same agreed time (for instance 21:00, 21:45, 22:30), assuming that Nadeo is the only judge to decide if one can be admitted to race (-2:00), any "late" change is on own risk of the Team. Also the possibility that more than one team skipper remains on water in the same server should be foreseen (invitation to leave or penalization to Team).
For sure I have forgotten some other aspects, i.e. the ratio between teams and servers but this could well be solved by MLS staff.
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euphoria
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Re: Proposal for group composition for MLS 14

Post by euphoria »

Thanks for good opinions.

For the question on advantage to chose server late, or disadvantage to be host, I'm not sure if that is significant. And how to chose to get an advantage? Let us say server A is the strongest, server B second and server C weakest. Then you as a captain have the choice of sending your 3 sailors to whatever servers you want. What is the preferred option? Do you want to send your best skipper to the strongest server etc, to have them all competitive, or do you want to do the opposite to have a bigger chance of a good result in one of them? I'm not really sure if any of the two options would be better in the long run. Personally I think it would make little difference and that there is no need for pre-assignment.

If we do pre-assignment of some sort, we lose the flexibility. We always have the challenge of some sailors arriving late, and teams have to make last minute changes. I think the only fixed assignments needed are hosts and video recorders. And since those can go in any server now, it's actually easier for Goffe to fill these roles than before. Just my recommendation would be to have only 1 official duty per team for each race day.

As Alberto suggests, it's a good idea to have the different servers starting the 3 races more or less at the same time (at least a target time). This to make it possible for one sailor from going from one server to another for the next race, though this is not absolutely necessary. I agree on using VSK as the official point of no entry (-2:00).

Harald
Fiducit III
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Re: Proposal for group composition for MLS 14

Post by Fiducit III »

Dear friends,

at first i want to say, i dont go conform with your ideas. The general concept was and is sailing with and in a team. The main thing for me to take part in MLS is the concept. For sure, changing things is not always a bad idea. But to change the whole concept, i disagree.
Substitute boatstypes, for example put AC 75 into the roster i totally agree. For me the best change would be to open the MLS Rules for "some" teamrace rules ( at mark, traps...). OK, that will include some more work for the PC, but every change includes more work for anyone. I dont want to sail alone on a server, without teamspeak and teammates. If we follow the new ideas, we also can change to a single ranking and a one handed race event.
I am sailing since 50 years on real water and took part at many, many race events. On a boat with a crew, you are always talking about strategy, sails etc. That is what we do in MLS in a team also. I dont want to miss that.
Just my opinion.
My team VSKFunsters agrees at least with my idea not to change the team concept but changing the boatstypes. All other ideas are personal ones.

Greets
Dierk (FIDUCIT III)
Jammy Dodger
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Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:04 pm

Re: Proposal for group composition for MLS 14

Post by Jammy Dodger »

Perhaps this idea could be trialled in the off week as a seperate (loose and not so admined) training event for the main team but not TEAM race event.

I like Dierk enjoy the camaraderie and funny banter/stress of a mixed language team on discord and planning/training to consider others and not just our own position.

Both concepts have their merits and weakness's. For me the original concept is stronger but i would be willing to try something new and fresh.

Kindest Regards
Ben Jammin
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