7empest protesting Kenny in Race 1 on Green server

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euphoria
Posts: 933
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Location: Oslo, Norway
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7empest protesting Kenny in Race 1 on Green server

Post by euphoria »

Submission Type: Protest and request for redress

1. Your registered Boat Name: 7empest

2. Race Day: 1

3. Group: Green

4. Race: 1

5. Time (in Replay): 25:10

6. Rule(s) applicable: 2 and 16.1

7. Skipper(s) involved: Kenny (: loyal and 7empest

8. Description: Kenny in 7th place to Leeward and ahead of me and Goffe. Suddenly Kenny decides to give up his fight for 7th place and goes to take me out. He luffs hard and passes behind Goffe. I release the sails in order to try to avoid broaching (which is hard in more than 25 knots of breeze when suddenly being luffed), but Kenny continues to luff even though Goffe now is more than 1 boat length ahead. I luff in order to keep clear under rule 11, and while doing this it's impossible to avoid broaching. Kenny is breaking rule 16.1 by not giving me room to keep clear. If he want to luff me past the point of broaching with a spinnaker, he has to give me time to take down the spinnaker. This was clearly not done, as he went straight through the broaching point.

Giving up his position in the race like this to take out another boat, while himself dropped from 7th to 11th position and losing more than 10 boat lengths is not fair sailing and is a violation of rule 2. Deliberatly putting anoter boat to the broaching point is also a rule 2 violation. Since I was a victim of his breach of rule 2 and because of this dropped from 8th to 14th place, I request redress. I would without doubt at least have finished in the place behind Goffe without the broach. Goffe finished 7th, so I think scoring 8 points would be a proper redress.

I would also request the protest committee to investigate another situation which also is a violation of rule 2. See replay time 23:04-23:08. I'm catching up on Kenny and is just behind his stern, then he releases his sails for 4 seconds to slow down, and he luffs in order to try to hit my bow with his stern. I managed to avoid collisions, but his move is still not fair sailing in a fleet race. Slowing down only to penalize another boat, while losing grounds to the rest of the fleet is bad sportsmanship. I'm confident the protest committee always will follow up rule 2 violations, as it's destroys the racing environment for the participants! Please initiate your own protest and take necessary action.

9. Print Screen attached: Yes
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10. Replay attached: Yes
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Kenny
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:49 pm

Re: 7empest protesting Kenny in Race 1 on Green server

Post by Kenny »

"Suddenly Kenny decides to give up his fight for 7th place and goes to take me out." This is an opinion written as though it were absolute fact; it cannot be substantiated or corroborated without the recorded testimony of the accused and I have to say that the accuser is incorrect as to the nature of my action as I never decided or chose to give up my 7th position. It is simply the result of causality or cause and effect. The quote is I.M.H.O. a salacious and myopic allegation rooted in personal self interest and can be seen as such by any person with a modicum of objectivity. Please see any number of articles on the subject of Subjectivity and Objectivity in Qualitative Methodology and in particular those written by Dr. Carl Ratner PhD.

Having said the above I'll add my own opinion by stating facts. I gybed to port on a 6~7 degree shift (favoring sailing on stb) as I didn't want to be trapped on the right side of the course; this act alone would have caused me to lose my 7th position in the race but I didn't want to be covered by 7empest or Goffe when we finally gybe to the finish line. 7empest then gybed above me (again the wind favored sailing to starboard). I luffed in an effort to get clear wind, I saw Goffe coming on STB and decided to pass astern (Goffe was an obstruction to me). Sadly this angle of sail was too high and caused me to partially lose control and caused 7empest to broach. 7empest could, at any moment during this encounter, slowed and sailed astern, but I digress as from my perspective it is painfully obvious that 7empest was singularly focused on sailing against a specific opponent vs the rest of the fleet.

My only question is why was 7empest so singularly focused on sailing against 1 specific boat (instead of sailing the course as quickly as possible) and potential advancing his position at the finish?

Please investigate each and every detail raised in the author's original post you may find some of it as comical as did I.


I'll save the PC a ton of work and retire.


Cheers,

Kenny B.A./M.S.
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euphoria
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Re: 7empest protesting Kenny in Race 1 on Green server

Post by euphoria »

To the protest committee:

Kenny's reply was made more than 24 hours after the protest was posted in the forum, which is too late according to the instructions. If you still choose to read his comments (I don't mind, and how can you ignore...), please also read my response to his post.

My claim "Suddenly Kenny decides to give up his fight for 7th place and goes to take me out" is of course based on what Kenny actually did, I'm not a mind reader. When he is to leeward and ahead of Goffe, and decides to luff up behind him, then he gives up the fight for 7th place in my book.
Goffe was an obstruction to me
Goffe had been on port for 5 seconds when Kenny luffed hard, which means Goffe was no longer an obstruction to us. We had right of way over him.
Sadly this angle of sail was too high and caused me to partially lose control and caused 7empest to broach
Kenny luffed hard, about 45 degrees. During this move, he apparently releases his sails, so it was obviously a planned move to go to the broaching limit.

In any case, the consequence of his move is exactly the same on me, regardless of him doing it deliberately or not. But when sailing on this level, you would expect the participants to know the physics of the boats. And there is not only the luff alone, it's also
  • his choice to let Goffe overtake him
  • and setting up the passing lane for his team mate who were just behind
that clearly makes it a rule 2 violation. One of the three alone is sufficient. This makes me entitled to redress after being stuck in a broach.
7empest could, at any moment during this encounter, slowed and sailed astern
I note that Kenny claims that I should have been able to avoid losing control when suddenly being luffed hard, when even himself who knew what was coming could not control the situation... When Kenny started to luff hard, we were overlapped. There is no way I could have passed behind his stern. You cannot put breaks on an ACC and expect it to stop like a dinghy. The natural avoiding maneuver when someone luff you is to turn away from the boat, not against it. And I don't have to anticipate that Kenny will break the rules. This is a basic principle.
it is painfully obvious that 7empest was singularly focused on sailing against a specific opponent vs the rest of the fleet.
My only question is why was 7empest so singularly focused on sailing against 1 specific boat (instead of sailing the course as quickly as possible) and potential advancing his position at the finish?
These words indicates that I am right when I believe that he decided to give up his 7th position to take me out. Obviously he believes that I was after him and he was pissed off.

But this has nothing to do about the situation, and it is strange that I have to explain basic race tactics to justify my choices. I round the mark in 8th place, and I'm right behind Kenny. It's not far to the finish line and the only potential gain left in the race is to pass the boat in front of me. How to do that? Avoid getting shaded by other boats, and try to give bad air to the boat in front. That boat happened to be Kenny, it's as simple as that. For what I'm aware of, I've never raced with this person before and don't know who he is.
Please investigate each and every detail raised in the author's original post you may find some of it as comical as did I.
Please show some respect to the protest committee and your competitors. This is not a theater. You are accused for breaking rule 2 twice in this race, which is a very serious matter. Or are you talking to your buddies in the protest committee? This is not at all appropriate behavior from a protest committee member.

The protest committee needs to keep it's integrity for the remaining of the regatta. How can we trust it's neutrality in the future when Kenny talk like this?
I'll save the PC a ton of work and retire.
I notice that Kenny admit breaking a rule, even though after being protested on the water, he asked "for what rule?". But there is no sign of regret and no apology for ruining my race. If he really didn't mean to do what he did, he should have told me on the water that he lost control, and he should have accepted a penalty. I think he is going that path now that he sees he has not other option, to try to avoid getting a rule 2 DNE. I also note that Kenny doesn't want to speak about what he did between replay time 23:04 and 23:08.

7empest
Legsy
Posts: 431
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:42 pm

Re: 7empest protesting Kenny in Race 1 on Green server

Post by Legsy »

A Note to all

Please see quote from 7empest
Please show some respect to the protest committee and your competitors. This is not a theater. You are accused for breaking rule 2 twice in this race, which is a very serious matter. Or are you talking to your buddies in the protest committee? This is not at all appropriate behavior from a protest committee member.
As all the skippers and PC members know. If a skipper or any fellow team member of the skipper on the PC has a Protest and /or a Cancel Explanation submitted then he/she SHALL NOT HAVE ANY INPUT INTO THE CASE. This has been the fact in all previous seasons with no problems.

The PC regards the comments quoted highly offensive in the fact that the PC's integrity is called into question.

For and on behalf of the MLS PC
Legsy
Posts: 431
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:42 pm

Re: 7empest protesting Kenny in Race 1 on Green server

Post by Legsy »

Facts: First Incident
Kenny's move obviously surprised Tempest who didn't have room to keep clear and broached because of the quickness ok Kenny's fast luff (about 40° in less than 3 seconds)


Facts: For second incident

Kenny broke no rules in his maneuvers


Decision First Incident

Tempest : redress accepted (8)
Kenny : DSQ for breaking RRS 16.1


Decision Second Incident

Protest Dismissed 7empest +1 point
no further action against Kenny

PC for MLS
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