MLS 11 - Day 4 - Pen Cancels & Manual Pens - 2020-04-07

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MLS 11 - Day 4 - Pen Cancels & Manual Pens - 2020-04-07

Post by PC Admin »

MLS Season11 Day4, Cancel Requests, Manual Protests and Redress Requests 2020-04-07
Cancel/Protest Boat asking/protesting Boat cancelling/protested Rule Comment

Blue Group
Race 1, San Francisco Bay Blues-MLS

C Larsvegas/NOR Team Goffe/Loyal Sailing 15 Explanation dismissed. Larsvegas DSQ.

Race 2, Jailhouse Rock-MLS
C Excalibur/NOR Team Wetstuff/TTW Good Guys 15 Cancel Request at 28:46. Wetstuff: “360 done” at 29:03. (Times in game). Explanation OK. No further action.

Race 3, Midsommarvaka 2-MLS
P Wetstuff/TTW Good Guys Larsvegas/NOR Team Wetstuff not racing. No Protest submitted = + 1p.

Green Group
Race 1, San Francisco Bay Blues-MLS

No Issues in Race 1

Race 2, Jailhouse Rock-MLS
C Jimi/French Magic Valodea/Expendables 16.1 Explanation OK.
P Jimi/French Magic Valodea/Expendables Jimi writes: “Mast hit”. Valodea DSQ.

Race 3, Midsommarvaka 2-MLS
C Jimi/French Magic Frenito/BZH Connection 13 Explanation OK. Frenito DSQ.

Red Group
Race 1, San Francisco Bay Blues-MLS

C Egon/POL-VSC Petter/TTW Bad Guys 15 Explanation OK. Petter DSQ.
C Samuel/TTW Bad Guys Donmasino/Italian Wolves 11 Explanation OK.
P Samuel/TTW Bad Guys Donmasino/Italian Wolves Protest withdrawn. No further action.

Race 2, Jailhouse Rock-MLS
C Albervita/Italian Wolves Tiki/Lupidimare 15 Explanation dismissed. Albervita DSQ.
P Clande/Lupidimare Siwy/POL-VSC Protest at 14:57. Siwy writes: “360 done” at 16:22. (Times in game). No further action.

Race 3, Midsommarvaka 2-MLS
C Petter/TTW Bad Guys Carly Master/TTW Bad Guys Rule ?? Explanation OK. Carly Master DSQ.
C Duffy/Jedi Albervita/Italian Wolves 18.2a Explanation OK. Albervita DSQ.
P Legsy/TTW Bad Guys Zee/POL-VSC Protest upheld. Zee-POL DSQ.
C Legsy/TTW Bad Guys Zee/POL-VSC 10 Explanation OK.
C Zee/POL-VSC Orione/Lupidimare 10 No Protest submitted. Zee-Pol + 1p.
C Legsy/TTW Bad Guys Zee/POL-VSC 10 Same as C two lines above.

NEW
P MLS PC vs Zee/POL-VSC 2 Zee-POL DNE.

Wetstuff
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Re: MLS 11 - Day 4 - Pen Cancels & Manual Pens - 2020-04-07

Post by Wetstuff »

Race 3, Midsommarvaka 2-MLS
P Wetstuff/TTW Good Guys Larsvegas/NOR Team Wetstuff not racing. No Protest submitted = + 1p.
If Wetstuff is not participating in a race and therefore cannot protest a boat, how does he have to submit a protest?
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Re: MLS 11 - Day 4 - Pen Cancels & Manual Pens - 2020-04-07

Post by euphoria »

Hi,

You wrote P Boatname without being part of the race, so you have three options according to the MLS rules:
- post in the forum to withdraw the protest, and no penalty point will be added
- file the protest in the forum, and 1 point will be added for invalid protest
- do nothing, and 1 point will be added for not submitting a protest

Harald

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Re: MLS 11 - Day 4 - Pen Cancels & Manual Pens - 2020-04-07

Post by Wetstuff »

euphoria wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:30 pm
Hi,

You wrote P Boatname without being part of the race, so you have three options according to the MLS rules:
- post in the forum to withdraw the protest, and no penalty point will be added
- file the protest in the forum, and 1 point will be added for invalid protest
- do nothing, and 1 point will be added for not submitting a protest

Harald

I have no interest in continuing this argument but all the above options refer presumably to a boat that is entitled to a protest.
So you are saying that a boat that is not actually entitled to a protest has to file a protest form as if she was entitled?

Anyway
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Re: MLS 11 - Day 4 - Pen Cancels & Manual Pens - 2020-04-07

Post by euphoria »

That is not literally what the MLS rules are saying. You better ask yourself why you protested, instead of complaining about receiving an insignificant 1 point penalty by the book from the RC. Or you may request redress.

Harald

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Re: MLS 11 - Day 4 - Pen Cancels & Manual Pens - 2020-04-07

Post by Wetstuff »

I'm not sure if you reply as Euphoria or on behalf of the PC, it appears there is already a PC Admin account for the purpose of communicating to/from the protest committee

The rules do not say that a boat that is not entitled to protest another boat should in any case file a documented protest, do they?

As I'm spectating the race and you coming from port to round the mark, I see Larsvegas on starboard luffing above close hauled.
After the race I realise 1. You would have narrowly passed 2. It used to be the fact in MLS that a boat NOT participating in a race but from a team racing could protest against Rule 2. This is not the case anymore, for this I apologise to PC for not reading the specific rule change

Now I also realise that you are willing to take this argument forever, because seems this is what you do, but I am just pointing out that to my opinion a boat that is not entitled to protest is not required to file any sort of documentation or take this protest further as by definition his protest is null

/end
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Re: MLS 11 - Day 4 - Pen Cancels & Manual Pens - 2020-04-07

Post by euphoria »

I'm communicating as myself, signed with my name, I don't represent anyone for this matter. I just wanted to help. Answering your question is not arguing. And the 1 point you got is given by the RC. The PC is not involved with that.

Now I will answer your specific question:
- "The rules do not say that a boat that is not entitled to protest another boat should in any case file a documented protest, do they?"

This is what the rule says:
- "If a skipper hailing P Skipper Name, does not submit a protest,or if the protest is not valid, or if the protest is not upheld, 1 point will be added to his/her score."

I guess you are claiming your are not a skipper. You are a skipper, but you are not a skipper in this race.
And there is a rule differing the two:
- "Skippers that comes to the pre-start in order to participate in a race, may at any time during a race protest against another boat in the race by writing "P Skipper Name" in the game chat."

I think 1 point is a cheap penalty for abusing the chat. In worst case, the boat you protested could have taken a penalty turn just to not risk a DSQ.

I'm glad you came to the conclusion that no rule was broken in that situation, but I would like to remind you that this is a team event, and sailing in a way to benefit the team is not a violation of rule 2. See this protest as an example on a "team move" that was not penalized by the PC. I did by the way observe a team move by your team that night, but did of course not have any problem with that.

Harald

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Re: MLS 11 - Day 4 - Pen Cancels & Manual Pens - 2020-04-07

Post by Toppen »

Hello Wetstuff,

This situation already occurred during MLS season 8 with WST team (Season 8 - Race 8) :
Sailor-Ger protest as a spectator.PNG
Sailor-Ger protest as a spectator.PNG (119.63 KiB) Viewed 4777 times
Sailor-Ger protested as a spectator, did not submit any claims on the forum after the races, and was added 1 point.

Thank you in advance for your understanding, and for accepting your point (which here has no influence on the result of your team).

See you
Toppen

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